Sub Raiding PvE

The epic duel between 2pc PvP and 4pc PvE!

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I want to point out I don't have endless time to do all calculations possible and the data available is pretty low for Sub, especially when it comes to 4pc. The data I gather may not be perfect but should be reasonably close.

Recently I was examining the Vicious PvP gear for Rogues and noticed the 2pc bonus was 70 agility. The item level of the PvP set pieces (365) are higher than that of regular PvE pieces (359) therefore giving it more base agility as well. Since Sub has the highest agility stat weight of all rogue specs I started to math out the EP values to see what the difference was between using 2pc PvP set instead of 2pc(4pc bonus) PvE. I also calculated the PvE non-set agi leather items. This of course being an attempt to better your PvE quality in a raid situation. There are also 365 il leather boots which essentially is the same comparison, however they take 2200 rating, where as the set just takes Conquest points and are much easier to acquire.

Here is what I found when comparing:

I will be linking these items via Wowhead.com, however I'll list out the main stat comps and differences so you don't have to view each one and/or open a bajillion windows to confirm. If the socket bonus isn't a positive PvE stat I'm not going to list it. Unless the socket bonus is 20 or more agi I'm also not going to list it. You won't want to match the socket even for yellow (haste agi/hit agi) even though they are your best non agi stats, as even 20 more of either of those vs 10 agi is a loss (28 v 36 best case).

Wind Dancer's set
Vicious Gladiator's set


PvE stats v Agility PvP stats:

HELM - PvE set helm, 281 agi, blue 30 agi bonus, 168 hit, 228 crit vs PvP set helm. 301 agi, 181 mastery PvE helm with socket bonus is -10 agi overall, gain 168 hit 228 crit vs PvP helm, 10 agi gain 181 mastery. 2pc bonus consideration (70agi) for 1pc would be 35 agi. 45agi and 181 mastery gain EP is 325. Compared to 168 hit 228 crit (assuming you're already yellow hit capped since it is so easily attainable elsewhere) is worth 427.2 EP. This is pre-reforge, which in this case the PvE item would reforge higher since 40% of 228 is more than 40% of 181. This is one of the worst examples since the PvP item has the worst stat (mastery) for Sub as its non resilience stat.

In the doc posted (ss and link) it shows you that the PvP item can be better than both or at least 1 of the PvE items as for EP value. You may lose the 4pc (if you have and are using it) for the 359 set, and this is factoring the 2pc PvP bonus gain already.



As you can see using legs and shoulders 2pc PvP perhaps would gain you a considerable amount of EP value. These statistics are all pre-reforging however so the statistical EP gain would be somewhat smaller in most instances.

It comes down to marginal amounts depending on your gear availability, and goes away once you get heroic quality gear. It may be easier for you to obtain 2pc PvP than the PvE loot depending on your luck and availability to raid/grind heroics. I felt it was worth mentioning so as a community we can keep our eyes out for something like this in the future (post 4.2 and further).

There is a much smaller pool of data available out there for Subtlety specced rogues so I had to rely on my own calculations via high end Sub raiding rogues (25 man data gathered mostly) while using Worldoflogs.com. I was doing this to try to get a gauge on the value of 4pc for Sub raiding PvE rogues, since you may or may not be choosing to not use it or lose it and use 2pc PvP instead. There would be an EP loss from whatever 4pc value is, and it may or may not be greater than the gain from your EP stats on the PvP gear.

What I found after analyzing and doing calculations on what I thought would be the most "stand still" bosses (Magmaw, Chimaeron, etc.) is that Sub rogues have very few Eviscerates during a boss fight, and a low amount of white hits comparatively. I chose stand still fight data since it would have the cleanest rotation, Sub PvE rotation is quite challenging to execute perfectly, or even properly. The average amount of Eviscerates per fight is roughly 25. From the data I was referencing about 40% of those are actually crits, even though the players crit rating is a bit lower than that. The 4pc PvE set bonus is Deadly Scheme. The average amount of "white hits" a Subtle rogue was landing on any given fight was ~300, give or take about 30. So on average 1% proc rate on 300 hits means 3 procs right? When 40% of those Eviscerates are already critting that means 60% of the 3 procs you gain a benefit from the actual proc (a 100% crit), so roughly 2 Eviscerates (rounding up). So you know, Eviscerate is ~10% of the Sub rogues damage. So you gain 2 auto crit Eviscerates on any given fight, those land for an average of 24k (above a typical hit from evi). You are therefor given ~48k dmg gain, say over a 5 minute duration fight (varrying). 5 minutes x 60 seconds = 300 seconds. 48,000/300 = ~160 dps gain from the 4pc. Unfortunately I don't know the relation between EP to DPS. The gain from 2pc PvP depending on your slot choices can be near that value in EP. You can use your personal preferences when choosing to use 2/2 or 4pc when Sub. I find it interesting and different to be using 2/2.


Credit Luisiuil for Chart Formulas.
Edited: Added chart and description of it. Removed chart w/incorrect data.